they say that if the unions get broken, this thing could escalate across the country. Do you think it will? I wish I understood better the boycott, etc……I don’t know enough about the technicalities of lawmaking, etc. Norm Chomsky is hoping that Egyptian-like riots start all over this country “Now’s the time”..imagine? Lefties are promoting OUR following the lead of Arab countries in toppling..what…Obama because he’s not liberal enough for Chomsky? WEIRD. He’s a big union guy, maybe he’ll lead the revolts against their getting broken down?
Here’s an opportunity for Mr. John Q Taxpayer to have an important conversation with Mr. Civ L Servant. The real boss of Mr. Civ L Servant IS Mr. John Q Taxpayer, not the Governor, so, who the teachers in Wi. are really angry at, and painting little hitler mustaches on, is Mr. John Q Taxpayer. who the teachers are really unionized AGAINST are Mr. John Q Taxpayer. and since this is really about deficit spending, that Mr. Civ L Servant is all for, and Mr. John Q Taxpayer is against. who Mr. Civ L Servant thinks needs to pay for ALL (that is, 100%) of his medical care AND retirement is Mr. John Q. Taxpayers grandchildren. Who should decide what gets paid out of the state budget? teachers unions? sad to see this once great nation is going to fall due to nothing more than the weight of selfishness. WOW! what a deal.
Malfeasance is the word that comes to my mind when I think about what the Democrats in Wisconsin did, BZ.
It’s time union thuggery was brought under control. No more holding tax payers at gun point demanding benefits that are bankrupting cities, states, and the country.
And I’m in a union.
cjh
Z: I’m a union guy by way of our LE association, and I didn’t get in to be rich. When I first started out 35+ years ago, I made $5.97 an hour and had dues taken out of that, plus got shot at. It’s taken me 37 years to get to the point where I don’t have to live month-to-month. I don’t get full medical and full retirement. In fact my medical stops when I retire. Take away collective bargaining and the county can pay roughly any general wage they wish. Anywhere. Private and public. In the private sector depending upon where you work, you can get bonuses, paid incentives, stock options, and other enticements either fiscally or in work hours, environment, etc. I don’t get any of that in the cop world. You work when you work where you work. Period.
As you might glean, I’m not fabulously keen on this because I sense a move to apply this across the board and across the nation to every public sector job. And to go retroactive as well.
I didn’t just “take the money and run.” I put up with years of shit to finally gain a modicum of breathing room. Some pull the pin at 10, 15 or 20. I stayed for any number of reasons and, trust me, I’m not letting anyone go retroactive on me without a fight. I worked hard and LONG in order to be able to retire; I would have retired this year except that my wife may be laid off from her job.
BZ
This is more about busting unions, this is about destroying the middle class and creating a lasting Plutocracy. Be careful people, think this through!
This tactic was used in Texas several years ago.
I might have been a little harsh in my last comment Bz, I certainly think anyone having worked in law enforcement for 37years should receive benefits and retirement, think promises and/or contracts agreed upon should be honored so people could plan for their future. I’m unsure about why unions would be needed in the public sector, might be a good idea in some respects, there were no unions in my former industry that were not hopelessly corrupt so I may be a little biased. I did examine the average pay for teachers and school administrators in Wisconsin and can’t see why all the hoopla about having to pay the small percentage the Gov’s plan called for. can’t imagine the state democrats had any better ideas to balance the budget or they would have had a better plan than to run away from the capitol, what the hell was that? romper room? and teachers dragging their charges out of the classroom to demonstrate on their behalf? good grief, If they wanted my sympathy, they damn sure went about trying for it the wrong way.
This is about a Governor who’s goal is to bust unions. He started office with a surplus, gave millions away to his wealthy supporters with tax breaks and now wants to pay the bill on the backs of public servants. These workers have already agreed to cuts but they will not give up collective bargaining. Union busting will destroy the middle class and the worker will suffer for generations.
Ahem…that’s most who read these threads.
Mark: my union is local and small. We’re not affiliated with the IBEW, AFL/CIO, Teamsters or any others. We negotiate only for wages and conditions in my county. We’re not paid New York Dock or anything even remotely close. I chose my area for a reason and stayed with the agency because it made certain agreements and I kept my end of the bargain. If I’d known contracts would change or I’d lose my retirement or the government would rescind my contracts, I’d have left some time ago because I would have KNOWN UP FRONT that was going to occur.
So, I work close to four decades and in turn for my service my wages are reduced to pre-1998 AND my benefits are reduced AND the percentile of retirement we’d agreed upon due to age and years of service are thrown in the toilet? AND I’m watching fucking RUSSIAN WELFARE RECIPIENTS driving Mercedes and Lexuses and living in homes and using foodchits for steaks and shrimp in my stores?
What the FUCK?
Hey, I’M the one that’s been obeying the rules, here, ALL MY LIFE. I PAY my taxes. I KEEP people safe in their beds at night. So I guess because I’m, yeah, a public servant, I should just take it up the ass and shut the hell up. It was ME who REFUSED to strike or walk out or call in sick on THREE prior occasions. But hell, because I’m a public employee I get painted with the same broad brush as New York snowsweepers and SF teamsters and all the other unions whose members do one job (like a movie “clapper loader”) and then bitch about conditions.
And folks, am I gonna pay the price.
And here’s the little, niggling, inconvenient thing: you GET the quality of cops you PAY for.
It ain’t gonna be pretty when you’re dealing with cops who can’t speak Engrish, who can’t drive or shoot or make a decision and are as innately intelligent as your local warehouse security guard.
Because I wouldn’t want to WORK around shitheads like that either. Much less depend upon them for service. You realize, already, there are calls for illegal Mexicans to be cleared for police service if they stick to the job for a few years?
Good luck with all of that. I really don’t think you’ve thought it all through. I — now — can’t WAIT to retire. Because if you think your future responder will be someone like me with the requisite training, education and experience, you’re deluding yourself.
BZ
The teachers were asked to pay something into their pension fund.
They refused.
The average teacher makes more than the average employee in WI… and with a guaranteed job, to boot. Yet the Unions feel they are entitled to a free ride at the public’s expense.
It is illegal for teachers to strike in WI, so they are asking for trouble, as are the doctors who help commit fraud by writing them sick notes. Conspiracy to commit fraud. By union members. Who make more than the middle class and don’t expect to have to kick in for their pension.
There is no reason to allow public sector unions as they are not working for a company, but for the people. They already get a say in their management via the franchise and having Constitutional rights to petition government as individuals. The public sector is not the private sector: it is time for the Left to understand that simple concept that using union power to coerce government is trying to remove the will of the people via the ballot box.
they say that if the unions get broken, this thing could escalate across the country.
Do you think it will?
I wish I understood better the boycott, etc……I don’t know enough about the technicalities of lawmaking, etc.
Norm Chomsky is hoping that Egyptian-like riots start all over this country “Now’s the time”..imagine? Lefties are promoting OUR following the lead of Arab countries in toppling..what…Obama because he’s not liberal enough for Chomsky? WEIRD. He’s a big union guy, maybe he’ll lead the revolts against their getting broken down?
Here’s an opportunity for Mr. John Q Taxpayer to have an important conversation with Mr. Civ L Servant. The real boss of Mr. Civ L Servant IS Mr. John Q Taxpayer, not the Governor, so, who the teachers in Wi. are really angry at, and painting little hitler mustaches on, is Mr. John Q Taxpayer. who the teachers are really unionized AGAINST are Mr. John Q Taxpayer. and since this is really about deficit spending, that Mr. Civ L Servant is all for, and Mr. John Q Taxpayer is against. who Mr. Civ L Servant thinks needs to pay for ALL (that is, 100%) of his medical care AND retirement is Mr. John Q. Taxpayers grandchildren. Who should decide what gets paid out of the state budget? teachers unions?
sad to see this once great nation is going to fall due to nothing more than the weight of selfishness. WOW! what a deal.
Malfeasance is the word that comes to my mind when I think about what the Democrats in Wisconsin did, BZ.
It’s time union thuggery was brought under control. No more holding tax payers at gun point demanding benefits that are bankrupting cities, states, and the country.
And I’m in a union.
cjh
Z: I’m a union guy by way of our LE association, and I didn’t get in to be rich. When I first started out 35+ years ago, I made $5.97 an hour and had dues taken out of that, plus got shot at. It’s taken me 37 years to get to the point where I don’t have to live month-to-month. I don’t get full medical and full retirement. In fact my medical stops when I retire. Take away collective bargaining and the county can pay roughly any general wage they wish. Anywhere. Private and public. In the private sector depending upon where you work, you can get bonuses, paid incentives, stock options, and other enticements either fiscally or in work hours, environment, etc. I don’t get any of that in the cop world. You work when you work where you work. Period.
As you might glean, I’m not fabulously keen on this because I sense a move to apply this across the board and across the nation to every public sector job. And to go retroactive as well.
I didn’t just “take the money and run.” I put up with years of shit to finally gain a modicum of breathing room. Some pull the pin at 10, 15 or 20. I stayed for any number of reasons and, trust me, I’m not letting anyone go retroactive on me without a fight. I worked hard and LONG in order to be able to retire; I would have retired this year except that my wife may be laid off from her job.
BZ
This is more about busting unions, this is about destroying the middle class and creating a lasting Plutocracy. Be careful people, think this through!
This tactic was used in Texas several years ago.
I might have been a little harsh in my last comment Bz, I certainly think anyone having worked in law enforcement for 37years should receive benefits and retirement, think promises and/or contracts agreed upon should be honored so people could plan for their future. I’m unsure about why unions would be needed in the public sector, might be a good idea in some respects, there were no unions in my former industry that were not hopelessly corrupt so I may be a little biased. I did examine the average pay for teachers and school administrators in Wisconsin and can’t see why all the hoopla about having to pay the small percentage the Gov’s plan called for. can’t imagine the state democrats had any better ideas to balance the budget or they would have had a better plan than to run away from the capitol, what the hell was that? romper room? and teachers dragging their charges out of the classroom to demonstrate on their behalf? good grief, If they wanted my sympathy, they damn sure went about trying for it the wrong way.
This is about a Governor who’s goal is to bust unions. He started office with a surplus, gave millions away to his wealthy supporters with tax breaks and now wants to pay the bill on the backs of public servants. These workers have already agreed to cuts but they will not give up collective bargaining. Union busting will destroy the middle class and the worker will suffer for generations.
Ahem…that’s most who read these threads.
Mark: my union is local and small. We’re not affiliated with the IBEW, AFL/CIO, Teamsters or any others. We negotiate only for wages and conditions in my county. We’re not paid New York Dock or anything even remotely close. I chose my area for a reason and stayed with the agency because it made certain agreements and I kept my end of the bargain. If I’d known contracts would change or I’d lose my retirement or the government would rescind my contracts, I’d have left some time ago because I would have KNOWN UP FRONT that was going to occur.
So, I work close to four decades and in turn for my service my wages are reduced to pre-1998 AND my benefits are reduced AND the percentile of retirement we’d agreed upon due to age and years of service are thrown in the toilet? AND I’m watching fucking RUSSIAN WELFARE RECIPIENTS driving Mercedes and Lexuses and living in homes and using foodchits for steaks and shrimp in my stores?
What the FUCK?
Hey, I’M the one that’s been obeying the rules, here, ALL MY LIFE. I PAY my taxes. I KEEP people safe in their beds at night. So I guess because I’m, yeah, a public servant, I should just take it up the ass and shut the hell up. It was ME who REFUSED to strike or walk out or call in sick on THREE prior occasions. But hell, because I’m a public employee I get painted with the same broad brush as New York snowsweepers and SF teamsters and all the other unions whose members do one job (like a movie “clapper loader”) and then bitch about conditions.
And folks, am I gonna pay the price.
And here’s the little, niggling, inconvenient thing: you GET the quality of cops you PAY for.
It ain’t gonna be pretty when you’re dealing with cops who can’t speak Engrish, who can’t drive or shoot or make a decision and are as innately intelligent as your local warehouse security guard.
Because I wouldn’t want to WORK around shitheads like that either. Much less depend upon them for service. You realize, already, there are calls for illegal Mexicans to be cleared for police service if they stick to the job for a few years?
Good luck with all of that. I really don’t think you’ve thought it all through. I — now — can’t WAIT to retire. Because if you think your future responder will be someone like me with the requisite training, education and experience, you’re deluding yourself.
BZ
The teachers were asked to pay something into their pension fund.
They refused.
The average teacher makes more than the average employee in WI… and with a guaranteed job, to boot. Yet the Unions feel they are entitled to a free ride at the public’s expense.
It is illegal for teachers to strike in WI, so they are asking for trouble, as are the doctors who help commit fraud by writing them sick notes. Conspiracy to commit fraud. By union members. Who make more than the middle class and don’t expect to have to kick in for their pension.
There is no reason to allow public sector unions as they are not working for a company, but for the people. They already get a say in their management via the franchise and having Constitutional rights to petition government as individuals. The public sector is not the private sector: it is time for the Left to understand that simple concept that using union power to coerce government is trying to remove the will of the people via the ballot box.