17 thoughts on “America: Here’s Your Islamist Future”

1. Now, having watched the video, what do you think?

   I agree that the video footage is infuriating, and I hope it is taken to court. However, I don’t understand why this is an indictment of Islam and the whole of the Muslim-American community. It’d also be nice to get a wider perspective, as we all know video cameras don’t tell the whole story (there’s no non-stop recording from beginning to end, from when they first picked up the pamphlet and what their conversation was…what’s been left out?).

   Some people simply don’t like to be filmed; doesn’t give them a right to assault the ones with the cameras; but it also doesn’t mean they’re hiding something because Islam tells them to be devious. I think that launches into the realm of the conspiratorial.

2. I don’t believe it to be conspiratorial; I believe it, however, to be an indictment of those practicing Islam, the religion of peace and tolerance, wherein asking a question — “You Have Questions, We Have Answers,” — generates a horde of special event security officers who, at the behest of themselves or others in the interest of Islam — because, what else is there at that booth and at that fair? — descend upon those who wished to ask said question and forcibly remove persons from the area, obscure the camera, forcibly push persons, unlawfully.

   There was no lawful reason for the removal. My job entails persons who may shoot video and do shoot video all the time. I have no lawful right to stop the shooting of video. There is no law against same.

   It is more of the same, Wordsmith; intolerance by Islam — in a public setting, by those clearly in advocation of Islam, in no other name, in no other religion.

   I’m also believer in “other footing” it. What if, say, someone who “appeared” Middle Eastern approached a Catholic festival in a public setting, approached a booth, began to ask a question, didn’t get to complete the question and then found themselves removed, physically, from said site by a minimum of 5 to 10 security personnel, touched, pushed, their cameras pushed away, obscured? What might the result be from that?

   If it doesn’t mean they don’t wish to be questioned, second-guessed, if it doesn’t mean they can’t tolerate a bit of verbal dissension, then what, pray tell, does it mean? What is it that one can conclude when you see this kind of reaction on tape?

   This is America. People get to videotape. They get to question. They get to have the ability to ask questions, in a public venue. They don’t expect to be surrounded, bullied, pushed, threatened physically.

   That is my precise point. If it’s not an indictment of Islam then, pray tell, what or whom? Bad security? Translational errors? Or should we simply be good Americans and chalk it up to a disagreement and walk away?

   I don’t believe it’s conspiratorial; I believe it’s endemic of the face of Islam today and its absolute INtolerance of dissonance in ANY form.

   In other countries we can watch and sigh, not be involved. But this intolerance is here. It is in America. It is present.

   There are currently 85 Sharia courts operating in Britain. There is room for only ONE law in America; American law. Not Sharia. No one else’s.

   I must say, I feel sorry that you seem not to comprehend my point, which I believe is much larger and more overarching than this one video.

   BZ

3. Glad you posted this as we did last week…

   There are more videos including one that shows what was on sale at this festival…including a tshirt w/ a caricature pissing on the Israeli flag…safe to presume there was other hateful material available as well

   There was another video from Minnesota as well, with Muslims assaulting a guy on the street because they thought he was gay…

   An investigator was detained – like in the video above – and kicked out of a Muslim conference in DC – and CAIR and others doctored photo’s to make him look like a Nazi (a setup for police)

   We cover topics like this every day – please check us out…bookmark or link to us and help make this info available to a broader public

4. BZ,

   I agree with you regarding the freedom to go ahead and video in a public setting; there’s also nothing unreasonable about asking not to be put on camera (doesn’t give one the right to commit assault by slapping at the camera).

   This is what I disagree with:

   If it’s not an indictment of Islam then, pray tell, what or whom?

   The problem here, is there is no monolithic church if Islam. Different people practice Islam to differing degrees of devotion and argue over what is true Islam (with right wingers insisting they know what true Islam is because they have the Spencerian reading of the Koran and Hadith, ignore the fact that much of al Qaeda theology is also drawn from more modern reformists, like Sayyid Qutb. Some of us on the right want to put all practitioners into a neat little package and insist “this is what you believe; I know, because I read it in the Koran”. It’s like telling a Christian what his faith is, because the Bible says this and that rather than allowing the Christian to define for himself what his faith is, and to what extent he absorbs and abides by its tenants).

   Who knows what the pamphleteers in the booth were afraid of? Being exposed for what? Who knows what the videographers might have said to them earlier? What they said when they returned to the booth prior to their camera being turned on? We don’t know. It’s one perspective, and an edited one at that. So I’m just exercising caution from prejudgment.

   Not all Muslims are of the CAIR-variety. And last I remember, their membership was way down. I think of them as the Rainbow-Push Coalition spokes-organization of Muslims: They don’t speak on behalf of all practioners of Islam, and all brands of Islam.

5. There was another video from Minnesota as well, with Muslims assaulting a guy on the street because they thought he was gay…

   Uh, yeah….Christians have been known to do that as well.

6. Yep and the way China is handling their MUSLIMS is even short of what I’d like to see…Sounds bad but damn it the religion of peace is anything but. It’s a damn pedophile worshiping cult and the world would be PARADISE if they all suddenly dropped dead.

7. I’ll put a spin on this one BZ. 🙂 I think what the Muslims did was wrong. I do know that if the tables were turned and someone in a hijab came to a Christian festival with a camera and asked questions he wouldn’t be treated that way. As a matter of fact questions would be welcome. They would be treated with the utmost respect.

   Your point was the issue of free speech and religion and he should have had the right to be there without being messed with which I agree.

   on a side note, as a Christian, what the Christians did bothered me. Actually ‘how’ they did it. They fit the stereotype of the ‘pushy, wierd Christians’ that the media has so successfully defined us all as. I think going into an arab festival with a shirt on like that and a camera was not the right way to approach them if he wanted answers to honest questions and engage in conversation with them.

   I could be wrong, just thinking out loud.

8. Rivka: and that is a point. And perhaps, and Wordsmith too, I wasn’t sufficiently clear in making my larger point. I was assuming that most would know that Michigan is also the state where there are footbaths in airports, where certain taxi drivers refused to transport passengers carrying certain types of meat and certain types of beverages. Perhaps in a way Muslims have assimilated only too well, as they certainly know how to utilize the laws in ways most advantageous to themselves.

   This just grates on me. This grates in a way that makes me highly suspicious. I’m sorry, call or label me as you will, but — yes, there is no “central” Islam account — this IS the type of Islam that people see and it is the type of Islam that infects. If somehow we fail to equate, link and understand what is occurring and has occurred in Europe to what is beginning to happen here then, again, I’m sorry, but we deserve our future fate. And it won’t be Christian, and it won’t be secular. Do the math.

   BZ

9. I was assuming that most would know that Michigan is also the state where there are footbaths in airports, where certain taxi drivers refused to transport passengers carrying certain types of meat and certain types of beverages. Perhaps in a way Muslims have assimilated only too well, as they certainly know how to utilize the laws in ways most advantageous to themselves.

   I had forgotten about those details; so maybe Dearborn’s Muslim community is a concentration of the CAIR-supporting Muslims?

   Of course, as much as it grates, it’s hardly unnatural for a large concentration of a cultural population to try to set up “a little bit of home” and begin demands of accommodation. Hence, we get “Little Saigon”, “Little Tokyo”, “Korea Town”, etc. I see this more as a problem of liberal ideology that tells immigrants all cultures are created equal and promote misguided notions of diversity and multiculturalism, rather than preach the virtues of assimilation into mainstream, established American traditions and heritage as paramount to one’s identity as an American. From that, you add in your own unique cultural heritage flavor- not to dilute, but to enrich American culture.

   The Dearborn community’s probably watched one too many Michael Moore movies.

10. When it comes to talking about Christianity to Muslims, well nothing can defeat true Christianity but one should be prepared to fear for their neck.

11. BZ,

    I’m with you on this one just as long as when we’re done with Muslims, we can start burning Catholics and Born-Agains at the stake along with their families.

    Deal?

12. Wordsmith: in my opinion this isn’t a matter of assimilation or philosophy; I couldn’t disagree with that more. In my opinion it’s a matter of assimilation only on the other end: join Islam or die. The reason, as you so properly point out, there there is no monolithic church of Islam is that, at their base, Middle Eastern Islam (as clearly differentiated from Indonesian Islam — the greatest concentration of Muslims in the world) is purely tribalistic. In tribalism there are only warriors — and Islam is always at war. I would refer you to Steven Pressfield, where I recommend you view the videos he has posted there in re tribalism.

    Misogynistic, barbaric, tribalistic, destructive — much by their very own words archived in the Koran — I will still abide by these words I frequently write: Islam IS as Islam DOES.

    BZ

13. Ranando: man, you strike a hard bargain. Oh, o – kay. Sheesh!

    BZ

14. at their base, Middle Eastern Islam (as clearly differentiated from Indonesian Islam — the greatest concentration of Muslims in the world) is purely tribalistic. In tribalism there are only warriors — and Islam is always at war.

    Tribalism in parts of Iraq and much of Afghanistan? Sure. But not the whole Middle East. Not all practitioners of Islam are cut of the same cloth; not all of them are turned on by Islamic fundamentalism and wahhabism;

    I believe that part of the problem isn’t Islam itself but the very tribalism you cite. It’s cultural as much as anything religious (and yes, there is a blurring of any distinction in various cases).

    There are Muslims just as horrified and embarrassed by stonings, beheadings, honor-killings, as the rest of the civilized world.

    I would refer you to Steven Pressfield, where I recommend you view the videos he has posted there in re tribalism.

    Listened to Hugh Hewitt today, and already visited Pressfield’s blog. Love it and bookmarked, already.

    Islam IS as Islam DOES

    Ok. Which is why I don’t condemn the whole goddamn religion.

    Who Gets to Define Islam?
    Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri? The salafi fundamentalists? Sufi Islam? Farrakhan and The Nation of Islam? Baha’ism? Sunni or Shi’a? Right-wingers crammed full of Robert Spencer and any politically incorrect guide to Islam? The mullahs who wish to bring about the end time and reign in the 2nd coming of the 12th Imam? Modern “reformers” like Sayyid Qutb and Mohammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, the inspiration for al Qaeda and modern Islamic fundamentalism? What gives them the religious authority to define a religion that does not have priests? Is CAIR really the voice of “moderates”? Is Islam inflexible and incapable of embracing modernity and a divorce from the violence and hatred of political Islam and 7th, 12th century backwardness? And where does that leave our Muslim allies who are also at war with their own brethren who have butchered more Muslims than we ever have? Muslim states who are threatened by Islamists who see their government as too modern and not enough Sharia? Not all Muslims and those who say they practice Islam seek to live under Islamic wahhabism.

    bin Laden and Zawahiri tried to convince the Muslim world that the West are at war with Islam. They have failed. That is, unless they’ve simultaneously convinced the West that Islam is at war with them.

15. Great, I’ll bring the beer and marshmellows, should be fun.

16. BZ,
    Thanks so much for the link.

    You said what I couldn’t even manage to frame when I posted that video:

    Did you ever forecast a time when, at a public fair, one man with two others carrying video cameras couldn’t somehow manage to ask even ONE question regarding one religion at one booth?

    Here we are, not even eight years post 9/11, and we’ve surrendered our right to question the tenets of Islam.

17. Mr. Z you asked me some time ago in another post why it mattered that Rep. Hoyer had meetings with the Muslim Brotherhood. I had dug up a number of links showing the recruitment of Muslims in the US to radical Islam since the early 1990’s with a few meetings going back before that?

    Those connections of who is in contact with whom, and when, do matter. No one wanted to stand up the US recruiters to a judge and jury all that often and just let this stuff slide. The wider connection of terrorist groups is a big concern. Shutting down questions ABOUT such connections is a primary objective of those groups, across the board. As a Nation we haven’t paid attention to this in decades, and only 9/11 got us to stir a bit, but the recruiters still kept on coming her, still preached their hatred, and nothing was done. Now we have an Administration that bends over backwards for dictators and terrorists, and there is Steny Hoyer having met with the MB… hmmm… I have deep problems with that then and now.

    I give Bush 43 credit where due, but he did not take the recruiters, their supporters or the terror network support in the US seriously. Not just al Qaeda/MB, but Hezbollah, Jamaat al Fuqra and others all in the US, and growing over time. That was part of his job as President, too. And he didn’t do it. Nor did he hold those going against his Presidential power in foreign affairs which is the President’s, not Congress’ to wield. The SCOTUS made that abundantly clear. Stopping this is not only here but overseas and requires a President willing and able to address both. Now we have a President unwilling to address EITHER. That is why it is important to find out who is contacting such groups AGAINST the power given to a President to protect the Nation: they are laying the groundwork for nothing good at all.

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